ProphetFighting

Ali all the Way!!!!!!

Great article and I couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t really dislike Tyson either but I have always felt he was overrated, to a degree. His main strength came from intimidation. The two men that refused to be intimidated, not only beat him, but stopped him (Douglas & Holyield), which I consider much more meaningful than Lewis vs Tyson. Great work, looking forward to more.

You make some good points, but you forget, Ali would never hurt Tyson. Tyson was a stronger, bigger, and maybe faster Frazier, and we know the trouble Ali had with Frazier. Tyson in his prime was a nearly unhitable animal.

If you look back at the Ali v. Foreman fight, Foreman was going to give him a serious beating if not for the 100 degree weather.

Ali v. Tyson would practicably be a light heavyweight v. Iron Mike. I think other fighters would give Tyson a harder fight. I also think that Tyson would destroy Ali.

You make some good points, but you forget, Ali would never hurt Tyson. Tyson was a stronger, bigger, and maybe faster Frazier, and we know the trouble Ali had with Frazier. Tyson in his prime was a nearly unhitable animal.

Ali v. Tyson would practicably be a light heavyweight v. Iron Mike. I think other fighters would give Tyson a harder fight. I also think that Tyson would destroy Ali.

Thanks for your comment. I disagree that Tyson was Frazier but better–Frazier was a better boxer. Its debatable whether he was stronger or faster, but Smokin’ Joe was certainly taller with a longer reach (Joe was 5’11 1/2, Tyson 5’10, reach 73.5 to 71).

Also, I disagree that Tyson was “unhittable” in his prime–I’d suggest that the opponents that he’d faced through Michael Spinks were unable to hit him, but that was due to a number of factors not related to Tyson’s defense. Tyson’s problem was his mental toughness–if you *could* hit him you could hurt him. Teddy Atlas–who trained Tyson early in his career-says as much in his book. Tyson lost his courage *quickly* when he got hit. He might have been able to take a punch physically, but IMO Ali would sap his will.

Your point about the Foreman/Ali fight is well taken, but keep in mind that it wasn’t any cooler for Ali. Ali was in better shape and, more important, was able to tactically take advantage of the conditions. That was perhaps his greatest strength as a fighter–his ring intelligence. He would find a way to beat people.

Also, keep in mind that throwing out the last two fights of his career–which he never should have fought anyway–Ali was *never* knocked out. When you fight Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Liston, Quarry and don’t get knocked out you’re a tough SOB. Tyson certainly couldn’t decision Ali and based on his career resume there’s nothing to suggest that he could knock him out either. Keep in mind that most people consider Earnie Shavers the hardest hitter in the history of the sport–so Tyson’s power wouldn’t be anything Ali hadn’t seen before.

In any case, thanks for reading and commenting!

Ali would definately have defeated Tyson if they met in their prime. Joe Frazier was without a doubt a better fighter than Mike Tyson. As for Lennox Lewis, he did not fight Tyson in his (Tyson) prime.

Tyson in 1986 would beat Ali 1965! No way would the greatest all round boxer of all time be able to keep away from a pumped-up Iron Mike!! Ali was and will always be the Greatest, but Tyson in his pomp would’ve been too strong! Nobody in the history of boxing hit as hard as Tyson, and with the intent to actually put his opponent into hospital every time he threw a meaningful punch. I love boxing, every style, but brute force would of been victorious this time i think! Cant wait to see 2 boxers in the future who have half the ability of Ali and half the strength of Tyson!!?

I have watched them all since Ali beat Foreman and I would have to pick Ali over Tyson any day of the week. Power only counts if you can hit the other guy and Tyson’s venom declined after 4 rounds. Ali wouldn’t have stood and traded he would have moved and boxed for those first few rounds. He is just too quick for Iron Mike and when Mike doesn’t have success he runs out of ideas where as Ali always found that little extra. Ali would out box him, out tough him, break him mentally and win on points or late stoppage. If Tony Tucker could go the distance with Tyson and Douglas beat him, Ali would have done the same just alot better.

I have watched them all since Ali beat Foreman and I would have to pick Ali over Tyson any day of the week. Power only counts if you can hit the other guy and Tyson’s venom declined after 4 rounds. Ali wouldn’t have stood and traded he would have moved and boxed for those first few rounds. He is just too quick for Iron Mike and when Mike doesn’t have success he runs out of ideas where as Ali always found that little extra. Ali would out box him, out tough him, break him mentally and win on points or late stoppage. If Tony Tucker could go the distance with Tyson and Douglas beat him, Ali would have done the same just alot better.

You, sir, are 100% correct. I can tell a lot about a person’s knowledge of boxing based on where they come out on the ‘Tyson v. Ali’ question. Those who suggest that Tyson could have beaten Ali–let alone those who suggest that Tyson would have *destroyed* “The Greatest” are invariably clueless on Tyson’s historical context in the sport. These are the people who, if asked to name the heavyweight champions prior to Tyson would name “Rocky Balboa, Ivan Drago, Clubber Lang and Apollo Creed”.

On the other hand the people such as yourself who know the history of the sport don’t even consider it worthy of much debate. Your comments on Tyson’s early aggressiveness and Ali’s tactical response are dead on, as is Mike’s tendency to not have a “plan b” when his “plan a” doesn’t work.

The Tyson proponents always insist that a) Ali would be intimidated by Tyson and b) that Ali never tasted power like Tyson’s. Both notions are absurd. Like you said–Ali would “break him mentally” just as he did so many times in his career. In addition to his considerable talents as a boxer, Ali may have been the mentally toughest fighter to ever step between the ropes. Actually, he wasn’t just mentally tough–the mental game became another component of the fight in which he dominated.

The notion that Ali would somehow wilt under Tyson’s power is laughable to anyone who knows their boxing history. Off the top of my head here’s a few guys I’d rank ahead of Tyson on the all-time power hit parade: Earnie Shavers (who many consider the hardest single punch hitter in the history of the sport), George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston. Ali beat them all, and only one of them beat him (Frazier by decision in their classic first fight). More significantly this “murderer’s row” of the hardest hitting men in the history of the sport–all but Shavers among the best heavyweights ever–was unable to KO Ali. Not surprising since Ali was *never* knocked out in his career and the only time he was stopped inside the distance in any fashion was the late career fight he never should have taken against Larry Holmes. In other words, to beat Ali you had to stand up to him mentally and physically for 15 rounds and somehow get the edge. You can count on one hand the men that were able to do that and discounting Ali’s final two fights (Holmes, Berbick) when he’d “hung around too long” you’d still have fingers left over.

Bottom line–Ali in his prime beats Tyson in his prime every time they fight…

I have watched them all since Ali beat Foreman and I would have to pick Ali over Tyson any day of the week. Power only counts if you can hit the other guy and Tyson’s venom declined after 4 rounds. Ali wouldn’t have stood and traded he would have moved and boxed for those first few rounds. He is just too quick for Iron Mike and when Mike doesn’t have success he runs out of ideas where as Ali always found that little extra. Ali would out box him, out tough him, break him mentally and win on points or late stoppage. If Tony Tucker could go the distance with Tyson and Douglas beat him, Ali would have done the same just alot better.

BTW, I forgot to thank you for your comment. Between the cranks and the endless comment spam hawking Viagra and porn I sometimes wonder if there’s any point to all of this. An intelligent, insightful comment such as yours makes my day and validates my enthusiasm for writing about fighting in the first place.

So, thank you sir and I hope you’ll come back and comment often.

I agree. For clues, look to the closest relevant fights.

Ali v. Liston — Ali by KO twice.

Ali v. Foreman – Ali by KO, and he told Angelo Dundee in about the fifth round that he was going to have some fun with Foreman before he knocked him out.

Tyson v. Buster Douglas – Tyson apologists come up with every excuse in the world but Douglas showed that the formula for beating Tyson.

Tyson v. Holyfield — Once Buster Douglas showed the formula, Holyfield made a fool out of Tyson twice. Tyson got his ass kicked by a cruiserweight with good boxing skills. Ali was at least twice the fighter that Holyfield was.

Tyson v. Lewis — The formula holds and Tyson gets his ass kicked by a boxer with a good jab.

The fight would go like Tyson’s fights against Lewis and Holyfield — only Ali would be faster than either one of them. Ali would pick his round, some time after the fourth, same as he did with Foreman.

Ali v. Tyson would practicably be a light heavyweight v. Iron Mike.

They had that fight — twice. It was Tyson v. Holyfield. Holyfield made a fool out of him.

This question is not so easy; I do not care if Earnie Shavers hit harder than Tyson. Tyson, in his wolverine-style prime, could coordinate an aggressive attack and finish opponents with combinations and a ferocity that was unequalled by anyone except possibly Liston. But Liston was not as good as Tyson.

Tyson was surgical in his early knock outs….Set ‘em up and knock ‘em down…and for good measure, fire off a few shots to their jaw while they are falling so they do not get up. I do concede that Tyson never faced as good a boxer as Ali. Ali got inside peoples heads and picked them apart by exploiting their weaknesses. His speed and finesse may have bewildered and overwhelmed Tyson.

The only thing that can be said is that if Ali managed to stay away from Tyson’s attack, he would have won. Tyson would have gotten frustrated by the bigger Ali’s speed and agility with his jabs. It is hard to say if a younger Tyson could have withstood the mental torment if his aggressive style failed to hurt Ali early on. So here it is: 83.33 % of the time, Ali would have won.

But…..

I think the only way to resolve this issue is both unethical and illegal. You would have to clone the two fighters (which is possible…all a dentist has to do is get some scrapings from their mouth, extract the DNA and do the “dolly” thing with DNA.) Then you’d have to raise them under similar situations (The Tyson clone would have a harder time with the youth part and this part would only add to the perception that the whole experiment is unethical as well as illegal). Of course, then you have to factor in differences in embyologic development and existential questions about the “soul” of the original person vs. the clone. But isn’t this abstaction more realistic then the time machine needed to get these guys in their prime?

Do not try it, It is illegal. You would also have to go to dental school, which is expensive and time consuming. Of course, you could become a dental hygeinist. I am also certain that if you scraped the inside of Tyson’s mouth, he would get up and kick your ass. It would be easier to get Ali’s DNA I think. So this is really the question we should be asking ourselves: At this time, who’s DNA is more accessible, Tyson’s or Ali’s?

Lost my focus back there.

Ali in his prime….Was that his fighting prime or his potential prime. He lost a lot of time after that issue with the military. I would argue that the potential of Ali was far greater than what the THE GREATEST ever achieved in the ring. Tyson was groomed from a young age to do one thing and one thing only: maul people in the ring. Ali did much more and then some.

In their prime, Ali 98% of the time. I give that 2% on the off chance that Tyson connects.

Totally underestimating Mike Tyson – his skills, defense, training, strategies, speed, toughness, durability.

i think no doubt ali would beat tyson although we have to take into account that these were, thought by most, the two best heavy weight champions of the world, but again i think that ali would beat tyson. i think that ali in his prime (fighting like he did against cleveland williams) would beat tyson no doubt as he had one of the fastest jabs at that time and it was really hard to hit him then. thanks, nice debate group keep it up

while ali was in his prime he never faught a boxer like mike tyson… the fact that the critics deem tyson an untalented brute is pathetic. He was a boy who had all the key Ingredients to being one of the greatest boxers of all time. He was very fast, had alot of stamina, cement gloves, and the anger that every great boxer needs. People claim that ali’s reach advantage and speed would overcome tyson. But the fact is ali was a dancer he was fast but not stronge, he faught his oponents with his hands down. say what you will but i truely believe that ali would have lost to tyson. Only because tyson was a fast determined and never ran out of fuel. out of the two greatest fighters in the world i believe tyson would be able to beat ali. Ali’s cockyness and showboating caught up to him, a man can only take so much abuse before he cracks. Unfortunantly he has parkinsons disease as i am writing this. To me that is enough evidence that he wasnt as much of the defencive boxer as he is a hero to us all. i will undeniably state that ali is The greatest boxers of HIS time. tyson could have been the greatest of his own time If he wouldnt have let his personal life interfear with his professional boxing career. I would definantly place money on Tysons victory over Cassius Clay.

while ali was in his prime he never faught a boxer like mike tyson… the fact that the critics deem tyson an untalented brute is pathetic. He was a boy who had all the key Ingredients to being one of the greatest boxers of all time. He was very fast, had alot of stamina, cement gloves, and the anger that every great boxer needs. People claim that ali’s reach advantage and speed would overcome tyson. But the fact is ali was a dancer he was fast but not stronge, he faught his oponents with his hands down. say what you will but i truely believe that ali would have lost to tyson. Only because tyson was a fast determined and never ran out of fuel. out of the two greatest fighters in the world i believe tyson would be able to beat ali. Ali’s cockyness and showboating caught up to him, a man can only take so much abuse before he cracks. Unfortunantly he has parkinsons disease as i am writing this. To me that is enough evidence that he wasnt as much of the defencive boxer as he is a hero to us all. i will undeniably state that ali is The greatest boxers of HIS time. tyson could have been the greatest of his own time If he wouldnt have let his personal life interfear with his professional boxing career. I would definantly place money on Tysons victory over Cassius Clay.

First of all thanks for the comment…Tyson certainly wasn’t an “untalented brute” but it became apparent as his career progressed (pretty much from the Michael Spinks fight on) that he became a “headhunter”. Furthermore, while he had decent movement earlier in his career as time went by his defensive skills erroded to an almost nonexistent level.

Also, its erroneous to suggest that Ali “never fought a fighter like Tyson”. He fought a number of them–I’m fond of telling people that Ali has already beaten Tyson twice, only his name at the time was Sonny Liston. Liston had much better technical skills than Tyson ever did, and certainly as much anger and probably more power. Ali fought a number of guys with more one punch KO power than Tyson: Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Earnie Shavers (who’s an almost unanimous choice among boxing cognoscenti is the hardest puncher in the history of the sport), Jerry Quarry (who may be the best heavyweight in history to not hold a title) and a guy who had over 130 KO victories in his amazing career, Archie Moore.

You say that “a man can only take so much abuse before he cracks” but there’s a problem with that when you’re talking about Ali: he never cracked. Of all of his amazing accomplishments the fact that he ran the gauntlet of Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Shavers, etc. without *ever* getting knocked out is ungodly. The only loss Ali suffered inside the distance was a corner stoppage against Larry Holmes (the next to last fight of his career and one he never should have taken).

The huge edge Ali would have over Tyson is in the mental game. Even his biggest supporters concede that Tyson wasn’t exactly the toughest guy mentally. If his “plan A” of coming out quickly and overwhelming his opponent for a KO didn’t work he never had a “plan B”. Tyson’s lack of mental toughness is bad enough against any opponent, but against Ali that alone would be fatal. Ali was IMO the easily the mentally toughest fighter and arguably the mentally toughest *athlete* in history. Ali would use the mental game as another weapon against Tyson and this alone would likely be enough to give Ali the win.

From a tactical standpoint, Ali could have fought Tyson like Lennox Lewis did. Lennox had a few inches of height and reach on Ali, but the same fight plan would work. And height and reach notwithstanding, everything that Lennox did Ali could do better.

Obviously when you’re comparing fighters of different eras all we have is speculation but based on the size differential and Ali’s edges in mental toughness, technical skill and quality of opposition I still have to go with Ali.

Ali may or may not have fought anyone like Tyson, but on the other hand Tyson certainly never fought anyone like Ali.

I also wanted to add as a postscript that I am by no means a “Tyson hater”. I wouldn’t want him to babysit my kids (assuming I had any) but I’ve always found him very entertaining and have had a soft spot for the guy. I always hoped he’d pull it together at the various points in his career he had the opportunity to do so and fulfill his potential but, obviously, he never really did. I’m about to write an article comparing streetfighting phenom turned MMA fighter Kimbo Slice to Tyson, and I mean that as a compliment.

As a boxing history geek, however, I have to look at “Iron Mike” in a historical context and in that light it would be hard for him to even crack my top 10 all time best heavyweights. If I factored in his popularity or impact on the sport, maybe, but on the basis of in-ring skills alone I don’t think he gets there. On the other hand, Ali fought–and beat–three guys that are easily on the list (Frazier, Foreman and Liston). I’d also put the “Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes on my “Top 10 Heavyweight list” You could make a case for Floyd Patterson and if you put him on “the list” then Ali fought 5 of the top 10 heavyweights in history with the only loss the one to Holmes. That’s ungodly.

For what its worth, some would question Liston’s status in the top 10 but he’s certainly in the top 15. The other three guys you *have* to have in any top 10 list would be obviously Joe Louis, obviously Rocky Marciano (whom I’d slot at #3 behind Ali and Louis) and Jack Dempsey. Personally, its hard for me to really judge guys like Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries or John L. Sullivan due to the fact that I wasn’t around then and there’s not much archival footage on them. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge anyone putting these men in the top 10.

“the prophet” after reading your articles you gave me little room to disagree and i apreciate you taking the time to reply to my post… also if you are interested and i believe you are, check out this interview of ali and tyson on the same talkshow… http://youtube.com/watch?v=ki4UKsI8bms

I enjoyed watching it myself anyways… Thanks for taking the time to reply your points on the matter do make sense although i believe if mike tyson would have not let his personal life interfear with his professional you would rethink your top 10 greatest boxers. I dont think sonny liston is comparable to tyson only because of the fact that there is speculation wether or not the fight with ali and liston was fixed.

Anyways Take it easy,
naster

p.s: now that i think of it ali’s mental strenght would overcome tysons under developed brain. in my eyes its a pitty that tysons career went downhill the way it did. And also i feel the need to say that tyson was not in his prime when he did infact lose to lennox lewis.

IN MY OPINION,WELL,ITS JUST NOT MY OPINION BUT IT’S ALSO MY WHOLE BOXING TEAM MATES OPINION THAT IF A FIGHT BETWEEN ‘IRON MIKE’ AND ‘THE GREATEST’ IS SET WHEN THEY ARE IN THEIR PRIME, THE BADDEST MAN ON THE PLANET WOULD SURELY DOMINATE THE FIGHT AND KO OFF ALI.
SIMPLE FACTS:
ALI IS NOT AN AGGRESIVE BOXER IN THE RING. ITS UNDENIEABLE THAT TYSON IS AN ANIMAL IN THE RING. JUST HAVE A LOOK HOW WAS THE FIGHT WHEN TYSON FOUGHT HIS FIRST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AND HOW DID ALI FIGHT…… THEN YOU’LL REALISE THAT CASIUS CLAY MIGHT NOT STAND ON HIS FEET BEFORE THE FINAL BELL RINGS.

ali definately would win he is just too fast for mike altough mike is an animal he’d be like a slow yet fierce buffalo against a fast strong cheetah(ali)

Muhammad Ali would destroy Mike Tyson. Ali would sap Tyson’s will before the bell even rang. And people like to talk about Tyson’s punching power but power means nothing if you can’t land the punch, Ali would be too fast for him.

Ali whips Tyson 9 out of 10.

Tyson however, whips Clay 9 out of 10!

Peak 4 peak, Ali all the way, no questions!

wow all i can say is that it sounds like a bunch of mike tyson haters on here including the so called ”prophet” who worte that crap article on the Dream fight! speaking of dreaming….. thats what Ali would be doing after tyson gave him a clean hook to the head..lol i’m 100 percent positive that Iorn Mike Tyson would devistate Ali for many reasons. you and a lot of other people under estimate tyson in his PRIME when he didnt have all the mental out of the ring distractions, and he was physically and mentaly sound and in the game. i’m not an Ali hater, but in this match-up with Tyson ( PRIME vs PRIME) Tyson was just to Relentless for Ali, tyson is so much different from any of those other legends of the ring, its crazy! totaly in his own! none of them have the speed, quickness, clean punching and as Tyson says God givin power! not to mention his defense was outstanding! he was like a human pendgilum. Ali would have so much trouble even putting his great jabs together on tyson let alone establishing it. i also cant leave out that tyson has one of the best chins ever in boxing history. Tyson was all around awesome fighter in his prime, and his passion and dedication for and to the Game in his prime was as much as any of the other greats. Ali i will say was probably the greatest boxer to ever show his full potential as a fighter in boxing. but ultimately when it came down to it, when in his prime mike tyson could’nt be beat..he was too good overall, and its really sad to have not seen Tyson in his prime longer and seen his complete potential as a fighter due to the out of ring problems he faced. but since he was so great at boxing, he was able to maintain alot of his explosiveness in his later years as we’ve all seen! as a boxing fan hes definatley my favorite to watch, cause you never know when you could see flashes of his prime again. so ultimately when it came down to the showdown of ALI vs Tyson …………….. Tyson wins by KO within 5 Rounds thats giving ali enough credit do to the facts that tysons so relentless with his skills….hes as quick as Ali maybe not with movement in terms of flowing around the ring but ultimately as quick, and hes got great defense to move in on Ali and his Chin could withstand anything that ali is going to be throwing at him, giving tyson that no fear aspect as always, and tyson used what is called a number system when he got inside, and with that is what he uses to put those fast clean powerful punch combinations together! that is really so much more than anything Ali has faced before. so a few rounds of that, and its all she wrote. Tysons knockout record is far greater than any of those other legends, its laughable to compare them to tyson and his power and underated speed and defense! Dont believe it? i want you to go to youtube.com and type in mike tyson training videos and checkout some of his older stuff especially, and look how he trains and how fast and quick he moves offensivley and defensivley and how sound he is overall! look at his fights with how he utilizes his talent and skills and rarely gets taged with any punches, and ofcourse his knockouts are always fun to watch! Now all that is INSANE! i think it will change a lot of you Tyson haters opinions.

wow all i can say is that it sounds like a bunch of mike tyson haters on here including the so called ”prophet” who worte that crap article on the Dream fight! speaking of dreaming….. thats what Ali would be doing after tyson gave him a clean hook to the head..lol i’m 100 percent positive that Iorn Mike Tyson would devistate Ali for many reasons. you and a lot of other people under estimate tyson in his PRIME when he didnt have all the mental out of the ring distractions, and he was physically and mentaly sound and in the game. i’m not an Ali hater, but in this match-up with Tyson ( PRIME vs PRIME) Tyson was just to Relentless for Ali, tyson is so much different from any of those other legends of the ring, its crazy! totaly in his own! none of them have the speed, quickness, clean punching and as Tyson says God givin power! not to mention his defense was outstanding! he was like a human pendgilum. Ali would have so much trouble even putting his great jabs together on tyson let alone establishing it. i also cant leave out that tyson has one of the best chins ever in boxing history. Tyson was all around awesome fighter in his prime, and his passion and dedication for and to the Game in his prime was as much as any of the other greats. Ali i will say was probably the greatest boxer to ever show his full potential as a fighter in boxing. but ultimately when it came down to it, when in his prime mike tyson could’nt be beat..he was too good overall, and its really sad to have not seen Tyson in his prime longer and seen his complete potential as a fighter due to the out of ring problems he faced. but since he was so great at boxing, he was able to maintain alot of his explosiveness in his later years as we’ve all seen! as a boxing fan hes definatley my favorite to watch, cause you never know when you could see flashes of his prime again. so ultimately when it came down to the showdown of ALI vs Tyson …………….. Tyson wins by KO within 5 Rounds thats giving ali enough credit do to the facts that tysons so relentless with his skills….hes as quick as Ali maybe not with movement in terms of flowing around the ring but ultimately as quick, and hes got great defense to move in on Ali and his Chin could withstand anything that ali is going to be throwing at him, giving tyson that no fear aspect as always, and tyson used what is called a number system when he got inside, and with that is what he uses to put those fast clean powerful punch combinations together! that is really so much more than anything Ali has faced before. so a few rounds of that, and its all she wrote. Tysons knockout record is far greater than any of those other legends, its laughable to compare them to tyson and his power and underated speed and defense! Dont believe it? i want you to go to youtube.com and type in mike tyson training videos and checkout some of his older stuff especially, and look how he trains and how fast and quick he moves offensivley and defensivley and how sound he is overall! look at his fights with how he utilizes his talent and skills and rarely gets taged with any punches, and ofcourse his knockouts are always fun to watch! Now all that is INSANE! i think it will change a lot of you Tyson haters opinions.

Anyone who seriously thinks ALi would lose to Tyson is merely drinking the IRon Mike Kool-Aid.
They fail to remember that even in his prime Mike did not destroy everyone.
In 86/87 he went the distance 4 times with Mitch Green, James Smith, James Tillis and Tony Tucker.
He was also 37-0, and only 23 years old when he was KOd in the 10th by James Douglas.
Ture, he won the other 4 fights outright, but this idea that he KOd everone is not true.
All 5 of the fighters listed above have something in common.
They are tall men, with long raeches who don’t have half the skill, heart, chin or ring knowledge as ALi.
Tyson fans often say that Mike’s loss to Douglas was becasue of his poor corner after he had fired Rooney.
They never mention that he was 2-0 in 1989 with that same corner with 5th and 1st rd KOs of Frank Bruno and Carl Williams.
If Douglas would ahve never gotten up in rd 8 agter being floored by Tyson, they would never say Mike wasn’t foucused or had a poor corner.
Ali beat the best of 2 of the best eras.
Liston, Patterson, Chavalo, Foely, Frazier, Quary, Bonavina, Norton, Foreman, Young and Shavers.
Tyson beat no name bums and washed up old men.
Mike never got off the canvas to finish a fight and he never avenged a single loss.

I’ve read many, so called historians of boxing comments on this subject. The word “context” means put in real terms. Let’s start, not so fast with the Ali victory here. Tyson must be considered in his prime before Don Kings. Sadly, this makes it difficult to judge him on such little practicle evidence. Let’s try. Tyson was a monster at the age of 19. Nobody in history has seen such a complete instument of destruction. His speed, power and chin are all ranked 10 out of 10. Yes, after no discipline and then a four year stint in a 6×9 cell, he was a man without skills. Lewis tyson, holyfield tyson, holyfield tyson on and on and on. How anyone can use these fights as a citation of relative evidence is to be rather off the mark with all logic. I’ve seen ali fight from the early sixties and i must say his opponents were ofter 191 lbs – 205. Yes, he beat some big men, but many of these little men pushed ali to his limits and on many occasion been given the short end of the stick on the final tally.

My pick M. Tyson in 1987 vs. Ali in his hayday

Mike comes out strong and Ali holds him off for the first round. Round one goes to Tyson.

Again, Mike comes out and forces Ali against the ropes and rocks Ali. Ali had great jaw and takes the hits. He survives round two. Round two goes to Tyson.

Tyson attacks with precision as he always did in his prime. Ali has difficult time keeping him off. Halfway through the third round his jab starts connecting and Tyson slows. Third round Tyson

Tyson less active. Ali measuring up and connecting often. Tyson bobs and weaves and Ali clinches throughout the round. round four goes to Ali.

Tyson catches Ali with a hard shot and send him to the floor. Ali takes an eight count and takes a barage of punishment, but survives by clinching. Round five goes to Tyson.

Ali comes out strong and punnishes tyson with his jab. Tyson lands a left hook that rocks Ali. Ali holds and survives the round. Round six goes to Tyson.

Both fighters have slow round and measure up slowly. Round is wasted.

Round 8 is the final round. Mike tyson catches Ali right out of the gate and wins by ko.

After downfall
Tyson knocked out in the second or third round.

I think that a prime Lennox and a prime Vitali would have cleaned both of them up!

Let us just put bias and personal opinion to one side. First of all respect shoudl go to both Tyson and Ali who were both respectivley great fighters in their own eras. As far as Ali goes, Yes – he was an exceptional fighter in “his ara” and arguably the most intelligent heavyweight ever, which counts for something. However, the sport of boxing, like every other sport has evolved since then, with participants having better training, diet, conditioning and science of the art inparted on them. The average heavy weight now is definately bigger than in Ali’s era too. I am a believer that it is the size of the heart in the fight, but when it comes to the big men size must matter, at least to some degree. As for Tyson, yes he had a tremendous amount of aggression and power, but like previous people said, there was a definate blue print to beating Tyson, and if you had sufficient size, skill and aggression, coupled with sticking to a good game plan, he was very beatable. Further, there were no real star heavy weights that he did defeat, and the two fighters who beat him in the decades of 1990′s and 2000 both beat him comfortably and were the dominant heavies of these eras respectivley. Tyson also tended to stuggle with big men who were good. If you take Lewis and Vitali; I don’t care what anyone says, they are both very skilled boxers, in different ways, both very large, Lewis with a decent chin, Vitali with a very decent chin, both would have had the styles, heart, skill, aggression as well as the size to trouble and beat a prime Tyson, with Lewis of course beating a faded Tyson – but don’t think that a prime Tyson would have achieved much better. Tyson was just too damn good for him, with Lewis giving him a boxing lesson when they were amateurs and also admitted after their 2002 fight that Lewis was too big and good. In my opinion, Lewis and Vitali are almost the equal of each other in the ring (sadly exactly who is better we will never know), so I don’t think that Tyson would have done much if any better against him. Ali was too small to have beaten either of these men into submission, and even if he shaded them both in speed (likely) that would not have been enough, as the superior power of both men would have eventually caught up with him. Don’t forget that Vitali and Lewis are intelligent men too (with one being a Doctor), so I doubt that Ali would have out smarted them with as much ease as he did against other opponents. I think that Lewis, Vitali and Tyson are three of the biggest punchers in the modern era, so I am not sure that he could have withstood their power with the same ease that he withstood the power from some men in his own era. I think that alot of people should move on from the past and stop saying that the likes of Liston, Marciano and Ali would have whipped all of the modern day greats, because logic would say that this is rediculous. No disrepect to the memory of Marciano, but it is farcical to even entertain the notion that Marciano would have traded shots with the likes of a monster like Vitali for 12 rounds..I mean he would look like Vitali’s kid brother beside him and Vitali’s training and conditioning would be streets ahead of his. It is just common sense, it is no different from a 1950′s swimmer, sprinter, cyclist up against modern day equivalent athletes…boxing is no different. It is just that other sports are more qauntifiable to gauge and compare, ie times etc. Boxing just has two men trading punches. I am off the firm and unshakable belief that if a time machine was to be invented and all of the heavyweight greats of the past 100 years fought each other until the last man standing, that Vitali and Lewis would be the two left out of all of them…they just have all of the ingredients, including the intelligence, size, skill and heart. Embrace these men, one still boxing of course rather than living in the past…respect the greats of old, but remember that the sport has evolved since then and they would most probably not overcome the likes of these monsters in all reality. As for Ali and Tyson, I think that it could go either way, but if it were to go the distance, Ali would have it for sure. If Ali could get past the first four rounds, he would be in with a good shot. However, despite the opinions that Shavers had the hardest punch in history (undertiminable and unlikely in my opinion), I really doubt that Ali would ever have been hit as hard…in short it only takes one good clean punch at any rate.